Podcast by Mal Bernhardt
11 May 2026
In the second episode of season 3, Mal will be taking a look at 'Beware, Beware' by Steph Cha. This is the second book in the Juniper Song novel trilogy.
This was an interesting one for me, since I'd never heard of Steph Cha or the Juniper Song series before. This isn't necessarily weird, there are plenty of novel series out in the world I'm unaware of, but the Juniper Song trilogy is a feminist 21st Century Korean American take on Raymond Chandler and noir(ish) 'private eye' novels. As a fan, but not an afficionado, of Chandler this definitely got my attention!
In this episode we'll be taking a long look at Juniper Song and how, as an 'out of order' reader, her motivation and feelings may throw up more questions than answers. We'll take a look at how she might reflect standard feelings of despair, at least 'standard' in noir detective fiction. In addition, we'll ask whether this novel can standalone or should you start with the first novel in the trilogy in order to know what is going on?
Content Warning: Mention, but no description, of rape and sexual assault.
Email: outoforderbookclub@outlook.com
Useful Links and Helpful sources
Steph Cha's website: You can find all her novels here, plus the list of awards and nominations Cha received for her fourth novel 'Your House Will Pay'.
Michael Caleb Tucker's article: This is called 'Despair and the Noir Character' and can be found in Clues - A Journal of Dectection (Volume 42/Number 1). It was published in 2024. I can't say I understood all of it, I'm no philosopher, but the links to Juniper Song as a 'private eye' were striking.
The Writing Disorder Interview with Steph Cha: This interview is from 2013 when 'Follow Her Home', the first novel in the Juniper Song trilogy, was published. It is quite a wide ranging and light-hearted interview which takes in Cha's motivation for writing the novel and her background as well.
The Outliers Writing University Interview with Steph Cha: This is a 20 minute interview where Cha talks about where she is now in her writing as she spent the last few years working on the TV series 'Butterfly' and her role as series editor of 'The Best American Mystery and Suspense'. This was the most recent interviews with Cha I listened to, so it was useful for finding out what she has been doing since her last novel which was published in 2019.
The Wendy Kendall Interview with Steph Cha: This interiew is about 8 years old and Cha talks about her writing process and in more detail about her motivations about writing the Juniper Song series and updating Chandler. This is a source I dipped in and out of, I didn't know about this YouTube Channel and I'll definitely be revisiting it.
The Young Lions Award Interview with Steph Cha: This interview happened in 2020 and is part of a series of interviews for the Young Lions Award. Cha talks in detail about her ideas and the process behind her 2019 novel, 'Your House Will Pay'. I think one of the reasons I enjoyed this because it was a flashback to 2020 and watching so many interviews conducted online!
The LitHub Article by Steph Cha: In this article from 2021, Cha writes about the importance of crime fiction in the 21st century and how she sees her role, and the role of crime fiction, in 'The Best American Mystery and Suspense'. It is a fascinating read, as it makes a clear argument for the importance of crime fiction in addressing the world we live in.
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27 April 2026
Mal begins Season 3 with a "forgotten" Golden Age crime writer - Gladys Mitchell and her novel 'Late Late in the Evening' part of her Mrs (later Dame) Bradley series.
Mitchell is an author I've wanted to read for quite a while ever since I read about her existence in Christopher Fowler's 'Book of Forgotten Authors', a book every avid reader should acquaint themselves with. The creation of Mrs Bradley and the experimental nature of Mitchell's approach means she has some devoted followers but, in this episode, I'll ask whether this could be the reason why she is not as well-known. It isn't a new question to ask, as you'll be able to tell from a lot of the research and writers who have devoted time to looking into Mitchell's writing.
In this episode, as well as asking whether this book can be understood out of order, we'll look at the themes of 'Late Late in the Evening', how it reads more like a twisted children's story than a crime novel, and how I feel I haven't really read a 'proper' Mrs Bradley novel...yet!
Special thanks to Jason Half who has created 'The Stone House' website in honour of Glady Mitchell and Mrs Bradley in particular. It is a fascinating resource and well worth a visit to find out more about this author. I've put the link below.
Quick reminder: The podcast will be publishing episodes fortnightly this season to give me time to do some creative writing, so I can put what I learn from these authors into action!
Email: outoforderbookclub@outlook.com
Content warning: Contains a little swearing. Plus, I call writer Ronald Knox 'Roland', so apologies for that!
Useful links and Helpful Sources
The Stone House (or gladysmitchell.com) - A brilliant website, and as I mention in the episode a great resource for my podcast. It certainly made researching and learning about Mitchell so much easier. Jason Half, who created the site, also includes reviews of all of the Bradley books as well as reviews of other Mitchell works. If you are even slightly Mitchell-curious after listening to this, I would recommend exploring the site.
Shedunnit podcast - A great 20 minute podcast looking at Gladys Mitchell and what makes her a fascinating yet forgotten 'Golden Age' writer.
Lee O'Brien's Gladys Mitchell's Mrs Bradley: Detection, Difference and The Rising of the Moon (1945) - 'The Rising of the Moon' (which I haven't read, I admit) seems to be similar to Late Late in the Evening, as it focuses on two children within the mystery. The research itself is a very interesting look at how Mitchell's style and her willingness to experiment made her an interesting if an 'unpopular' writer.
Paul Peppis' Querying and Queering golden age detection: Gladys Mitchell's Speedy Death and popular modernism - Very interesting research about 'Speedy Death', Mitchell's first novel which seems to break a lot of the 'rules' set out by people like Knox while also playing with society's ideas of sexuality.
Christopher Fowler's Blog - Fowler mentions Mitchell a lot in his blog. However, this link will take you to a specific page (rather than the home page) where Fowler lists 10 forgotten authors he thought people should know about. His summary of the charms of Mitchell (which is at the bottom) is memorable.
The Book of Forgotten Authors by Christopher Fowler - Every home of every avid reader should have a copy of this! Support your forgotten authors!
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06 April 2026
In this special bonus episode of Out of Order Book Club, Mal is talking to the author Adam Christopher. He is a New York Times bestselling author, who has a ton (technical word!) of experience writing both original novels and tie ins.
If you're a regular listener to Out of Order Book Club, you'll know that two of Adam Christopher's novels have appeared on this podcast (I Only Killed Him Once in Season 1 and Stranger Things: Darkness on the Edge of Town in Season 2). In this interview, we'll be reflecting on the research I've mentioned in Season 2 and how that mirrors his own experience as a tie-in writer for film, TV and video games. We'll be dealing with questions like: How important is it to be a fan of the film or TV series to write a tie-in? How much does immersion matter in preparing for writing a tie-in? What does a writer need to do to get the opportunity to write a tie-in? Where does non-contradiction and non-repetition come into the writing process?
We'll be mentioning his tie-in work for Dr Who, Elementary, Stranger Things, Star Wars, World of Warcraft and Dishonored, as well as references to novels mentioned in Season 2 like The X-Files and The Man from U.N.C.L.E..
This is a great interview for those people who are fans of Adam Christopher's work, tie-in novels or aspiring tie-in writers.
Email: outoforderbookclub@outlook.com
Useful links and helpful sources:
Page One Podcast: This is an older podcast that I've mention before when I looked at I Only Killed Him Once in Season 1. In this, Adam Christopher talks in more detail about the Stranger Things experience.
Cantina Cast: This is a recent interview with Adam Christopher that I refer to in this interview. This podcast focuses on Master of Evil. You should listen to this if you want to hear more about Star Wars in particular.
Radio Rebellion Podcast: I also listened to this interview with Adam Christopher where he talks about Master of Evil. Although I didn't refer to it, its focus on fandom and writing influenced that focus in this interview.
Tied in: This book is edited by Lee Goldberg. The essay by David Spencer was used extensively in The Man from U.N.C.L.E., episode is mentioned in this bonus episode.
Research referred to in this episode and used in Season 2:
M.J. Clarke - The Strict Maze of Media Tie-In Novels (2009): This research focuses on immersion, non-contradiction, non-repetition and the importance of being fan amongst other things.
Matt Hills -Torchwood's trans-transmedia: Media tie-ins and brand 'fanagement' (2012): This research focuses on Torchwood and fanagement, plus the limits of transmedia.
Filipo Gilardi and James Reid - Transmedia storytelling: Paradigm shift in literary studies, narrative, adaptation, teaching and learning (2014): This research focuses on transmedia and the importance of fidelity and entirety amongst other things.
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09 March 2026
In the final episode of this season, Mal will take a second visit to the Buffyverse with 'Cursed' by Mel Odom. This is a crossover tie-in between Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel.
In this episode, I'll be wondering whether I actually watched Season 5 of Buffy because I didn't know about Spike and Buffy's relationship. I'll be thinking about how important outlines are when planning a tie-in. Plus, I'll be addressing whether something so far into two different series can be an entry point to either. I might mention Angel and Spike's love life, but I avoid (I hope!) getting dragged into the fan discussion of who should be with Buffy.
Content warning: It's worth knowing that I use the word Romani throughout the episode, but the novel does not use that term when talking about the Romani community. "Gypsy" is used a great deal in the novel, as it was in the TV show. Over the last 20 years, the use of this word, its impact on the community and its connotations have been widely discussed, this happens with language all the time as times change. I am just reflecting that change in choosing the term 'Romani'. I'm not making a judgement on Odom or the Buffyverse's use of "Gypsy" 22 years ago, as I'm 100% certain that is the term I would've used back then.
Email: outoforderbookclub@outlook.com
Useful links and sources:
Clarke - The Strict Maze of Media Tie-In Novels (2009)
Hills -Torchwood's trans-transmedia: Media tie-ins and brand 'fanagement' (2012)
Williamson - Spike, sex and subtext: Intertextual portrayals of the sympathetic vampire on cult television (2005): This and the article below really introduced me to the importance and popularity of Spike's tortuous love life which began with Druscilla and is a touchstone in this novel.
Mukherjea - My Vampire Boyfriend: Postfeminism, "Perfect" Masculinity, and the Contemporary Appeal of Paranormal Romance (2011): Spike and Angel are not referred to a lot in this article, but it is a great read for putting these characters in the context of popular 'vampire boyfriends'.
Govert - Slayers: A Buffyverse Story and the Delicate Art of Tie-In Media (2023)
Interview with Mel Odom - Reading and Writing podcast: The interview that has the set which I describe as a 'cluttered Between Two Ferns', but like the podcast below it is an interesting listen for aspiring writers.
Interview with Mel Odom - Writing Out Loud: A fun, quick podcast which is interesting for anyone who is an aspiring writer or just interested in tie-ins.
Fantastic Fiction - Mel Odom Book list
Angel - Buffyverse Wiki: This was useful in getting some context for the vast amount of tie-ins in the Buffyverse!
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02 March 2026
In the penultimate episode of this season we'll be making the first of two visits to the Buffyverse with 'Coyote Moon' by John Vornholt. The Buffyverse has remained popular since the TV series finished in the the early '00s with multiple tie-ins, novelisatons and audio dramas, so we'll certainly be (lightly) touching on 'What makes something canon in the Buffyverse?'
In addition, we'll think about whether it's easier to write tie-in for a first season in comparison to others, and how Buffy and this novel focus on the outsider status of everyone involved in the narrative. Plus, there will be the usual Out of Order Book club elements, with the clearest answer yet about whether this can standalone and whether this could be an entry point to the TV series.
Although next week's final episode is also in the Buffyverse, you shouldn't worry. Rest assured, this episode can standalone!
Update (15th March 2025): I mention in this episode that there is a Buffy reboot coming up. Well, things have changed recently, since Sarah Michelle Gellar has just announced it isn't going forward.
Email: outoforderbookclub@outlook.com
Useful links and sources:
Interview between Hans Persson and John Vornholt: It looks at little odd, but it is an easy to read dialogue with some genuine insights into being a tie-in author.
We Hate Movies 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer (1992)' (2019): I've listened to 'We Hate Movies' for years, so I admit I have some bias here. However, this has four people with four different perspectives on Buffy the film and the TV series, plus it is very funny.
Hannah Flint's How tainted is Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 25 years on (2022): A very interesting article that revisits Buffy in the 21st century.
Amy-Chinn and Williamson - The vampire Spike in text and fandom: Unsettling oppositions in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (2005): This will be coming back in the next episode, but a genuinely interesting (overview) article about the cultural impact of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Shaun Duke's Fan Fic vs. Tie-In Fiction: A Framework (2023)
M.J. Clarke - The Strict Maze of Media Tie-In Novels (2009)
Matt Hills -Torchwood's trans-transmedia: Media tie-ins and brand 'fanagement' (2012)
IFASA Speaker - John Vornholt (2012): I didn't mention this in the episode, as I didn't use it. However, this is an engaging presentation by the author himself.
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23 February 2026
In this episode, Mal will be going back to the '90s to revisit one of her first real TV addictions ('The X-Files') with 'Whirlwind' by Charles Grant. In this episode, there will be a distinction made between fans and real 'X-Philes', and a related discussion on whether the TV show itself was contradictory putting the TV show and fans at odds with each other. The episode will address the questions this throws up, such as - What does a tie-in writer do if the TV show is contradictory? How does a writer deal with a 'will they/won't they' couple? What's the big theme in the TV show and is it echoed in this novel? In addition, there'll be a quick definition of 'Quiet Horror' and whether The X-Files and their tie-ins are a perfect fit for that genre.
Content Warning: There is one extract which is a little gross when Mulder and Scully are looking at photos of mutilated cattle and a little swearing (unconnected!)
Email: outoforderbookclub@outlook.com
Useful links and interesting sources:
M.J. Clarke - The Strict Maze of Media Tie-In Novels (2009)
Matt Hills -Torchwood's trans-transmedia: Media tie-ins and brand 'fanagement' (2012)
Paula Cappa and Quiet Horror (2016): This provided a useful definition of quiet horror and background into how Charles Grant was a champion of it..
Ryan Coogler update on his X-Files reboot (Collider, 2026)
Neil Snowdon - Dancing with Shadows: The Charles L. Grant Blogathon (2016): One of the key sites I discovered that showed me the impact of Grant on other authors
Mikel J. Koven's chapter on The X-Files (2010)
Douglas Kellner's The X-Files and the Aesthetics and Politics of Postmodern Pop (1999)
Christine A. Wooley's Visible Fandom: Reading The X-Files through X-Philes (2002)
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